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Post by Puoluesihteeri on Sept 25, 2005 16:22:51 GMT 2
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Post by feldmarschall on Oct 22, 2005 10:59:34 GMT 2
Something new to say it in English?  Because you know i cant read the other threads. Ich muss jetzt echt mal sagen: Ich finde die Seite echt ganz toll. Ein dickes Lob von mir. Macht weiter so. I hoffe ihr versteht mich. And i want to ask something too: Are you finnisch still angry about the russians that you lost a lot of your territory to them? |
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Luuger
Stellvertreter des Führers 
?Qu? es eso?
Posts: 365
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Post by Luuger on Oct 22, 2005 15:56:10 GMT 2
I'd like to have Karelian isthmus and Petsamo region as part of Finland. And I think I'm not wrong if I say that 50/50 wan't Karelia back. But if those regions would be ceded back to Finland, they have way too much problems. Those who want Karelia back refer to history, those who don't, refer to russian problem (most of the current karelian population is russian origin, thanks Stalin) and economical/enviromental problems (the population is VERY poor and most live in hovel towns built in woods and they throw garbage straight in the woods).
And I wouldn't say "angry" it's only a wish.
What about you germans? Do you miss Köningsberg / East-Prussia?
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Post by feldmarschall on Oct 25, 2005 12:40:21 GMT 2
In Germany it is a big problem to speak about our territory that was occupied by poland. Our Government want that nobody speaks about ist, but more and more want to clear this question. At the last choice a few weeks ago, the NPD the successor party of the NSDAP got 1,8 %. At the first view it is not much, but when you look at the choice before they got 0,8 %. And they get more and more. You know that in poland there is a new president. He is very Anti-german and wants remuneration from us. But we DONT py anything. My opinion is that he will get money when he gave us our territory back that has the size of one third of Germany. I am not a trailer of the NPD or the new Linkspartei the successor of the communists => they got 8,0 % !!!!! , but I want to build a new Germany, not this terrible Bundesrepublik Deutschland. I want that our Goverment protects our culture, our language and so on. But at the moment our Government sells our land to the foreigner and we pay too much money in the EU, the UNO etc. We have to pay reparations for the WWII, too and we lost one third of our territory!!!! But not many in our country know it and a lot in other european countries too! Our demands are very easy: The polands must give us our territory back. And Austria should come to Germany. Together we form again the Deutsche Reich. And we want to protect our culture, language and so on. And we want to build up a new nationalism. A lot of us dont have any nationalproudly more. It was destroyed by the USA, England etc. We have so many unemployed persons, about 6 Million, and when it doesnt get any better, there will be a civil war a daily. We must crush our government this is the only whats helps, because all of our big parties sell our land, sell our culture, and they destroy what I like on Germany so much.... I hope you did understand it a little bit. Dont believe the official messages in TV or so on not so much. A lot what came from our Government was propanganda. It is more badly in our country as they want to admit. You only must travel to Berlin. About a 500.000 turkish foreigner !!!!! people live there, in a lot of the quarters there are only foreigner, no german any more. But we will fight if it should be necessary and in the end, we will win. |
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Luuger
Stellvertreter des Führers
?Qu? es eso?
Posts: 365
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Post by Luuger on Oct 25, 2005 13:44:22 GMT 2
Hehe hope you were'nt too serious about that text because it's a bit funny  But "we pay too much money in the EU" is like from a finnish newspaper. Media says that we'r also paying too much for the EU (percentually, not the amount), but I think the reason are the new union countries. That's one of the unions objectives, balance Europe. But even so you have the biggest decision power in the EU parliament (99 seats and Finland has 14). So I think it's right to pay a bit more for the bigger decision power. |
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Post by statthalter on Nov 9, 2005 2:12:00 GMT 2
Hi there! I also just found your page. And it's great! The pictures you have are awesome, and the design of the site is very beautiful! It's really chilling to see these pictures of Speer's buildings, or of jet planes bearing the swastika. It is scary, yet at the same time exciting to read about a world where the Nazis won. Even though I don't understand anything in the texts, the pictures and the few German or English words interspersed gave me a sort of idea what it's about. And some of these pictures (like the ones on the Euro-Korps page) speak a thousand words. If only it was in a language I could actually understand!  Don't you think you could find volunteers to translate from Finnish into English? The internet is full of Finns who are fluent in many languages (apart from Finnish) and who seem to have lots of time on their hands. Anyways, great site!! David |
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Post by statthalter on Nov 9, 2005 2:19:46 GMT 2
In Germany it is a big problem to speak about our territory that was occupied by poland. Our Government want that nobody speaks about ist, but more and more want to clear this question. At the last choice a few weeks ago, the NPD the successor party of the NSDAP got 1,8 %. At the first view it is not much, but when you look at the choice before they got 0,8 %. And they get more and more. You know that in poland there is a new president. He is very Anti-german and wants remuneration from us. But we DONT py anything. My opinion is that he will get money when he gave us our territory back that has the size of one third of Germany. I am not a trailer of the NPD or the new Linkspartei the successor of the communists => they got 8,0 % !!!!! , but I want to build a new Germany, not this terrible Bundesrepublik Deutschland. I want that our Goverment protects our culture, our language and so on. But at the moment our Government sells our land to the foreigner and we pay too much money in the EU, the UNO etc. We have to pay reparations for the WWII, too and we lost one third of our territory!!!! But not many in our country know it and a lot in other european countries too! Our demands are very easy: The polands must give us our territory back. And Austria should come to Germany. Together we form again the Deutsche Reich. And we want to protect our culture, language and so on. And we want to build up a new nationalism. A lot of us dont have any nationalproudly more. It was destroyed by the USA, England etc. We have so many unemployed persons, about 6 Million, and when it doesnt get any better, there will be a civil war a daily. We must crush our government this is the only whats helps, because all of our big parties sell our land, sell our culture, and they destroy what I like on Germany so much.... I hope you did understand it a little bit. Dont believe the official messages in TV or so on not so much. A lot what came from our Government was propanganda. It is more badly in our country as they want to admit. You only must travel to Berlin. About a 500.000 turkish foreigner !!!!! people live there, in a lot of the quarters there are only foreigner, no german any more. But we will fight if it should be necessary and in the end, we will win. As a German, I'd like to point out that feldmarschall does not speak for a majority here. In particular, I don't share his opinion. I have no connection to the former German lands in Poland. It was German until 1945 and that's when it ended - the blame for this is solely with the Germans who started the war and who committed unspeakable crimes in Poland and other countries. I think cities like Breslau/Wroclaw which have a long German (and Silesian) history but are now Polish should not be seen as solely Polish or solely German, they are European cities nowadays and their heritage from all periods of history should be appreciated. Like with so many other cities in Europe which were ruled by many countries, we should not look at who has the most claim to them but rather we should ask ourselves, how can we make Europe a freer and more open place so that all can come and visit these cities, and stay there if they like the place and can make a living there. Naturally each place has a native language and a distinct culture, and newcomers should respect this. They should learn the language, and take part in the cities' affairs. You can't expect people to tolerate it if you create your own little Istanbul, your own Neu-Berlin or Novy Polska in the middle of their cities, and shut the native culture out. The city government, the citizens and the newcomers should work together to help all who want to come find a place. I think it's sad that Kaliningrad/Königsberg is still so poor and so hard to access. It was a beautiful city before the Wehrmacht and the Red Army fought over it - and sadly the communist USSR never spend money or effort to make the city like it once was. Instead they made it into a grey, faceless place. Wherever communism went, it created ugliness, poverty and it degraded the people. You can see that in the socialist architecture, in Kaliningrad, in east Germany and other former communist places. |
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Luuger
Stellvertreter des Führers
?Qu? es eso?
Posts: 365
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Post by Luuger on Nov 11, 2005 14:48:46 GMT 2
Welcome to boards statthalter Good that you gave your opinion and that you do have some "feelings" towards Köningsberg(Kaliningrad). Or is Köningsberg totally foreign city for you? E.g Viipuri has been a finnish city since 13th century but very few ppl think about it as a finnish city. |
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Post by statthalter on Nov 12, 2005 17:34:41 GMT 2
Feelings towards Königsberg/Kaliningrad? Not really. It's a Russian city, and there's so little left from German times (in the city itself) that the 700 years of Prussian history might as well not have existed.
But I'd still like the city, and the exclave, to play a greater role in Europe. It would be cool if they could come up with their own identity - the people living there are Russians, but they're not geographically connected to Russia, and Russia has AFAIK not much interest in them.
It would be nice f.ex. if they would finally rename the city. Kalinin was a Soviet bureaucrat under Stalin... I'm sure there's better names for the city. Koniggrad, Konigsberg, St. Putingrad, whatever... I heard a while ago that there was an idea about renaming it Kantgrad, in the honor of the philosopher Emmanuel Kant who lived in Königsberg. That would be a nice thing.
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Post by statthalter on Nov 12, 2005 17:38:19 GMT 2
By the way:
I have a question about the alternate history presented here.
What happened to Leningrad? It's right next to the border of finnland. Did they raze the city to the ground, as Hitler planned, or did they do something esle with it?
And what did Finnland do with the areas annexed to the east - Kola peninsula and all the area between the 1940 border and the White Sea? Development? Rocket bases? Submarine bases? Massacring or expelling the local population? Settling the land with Finnish settlers?
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Luuger
Stellvertreter des Führers
?Qu? es eso?
Posts: 365
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Post by Luuger on Nov 13, 2005 12:06:39 GMT 2
As far as I can recall it atm. Leningrad is german free-city that does not belong to Russia. About 500,000 people.
And about Karelia and Kola, almost whole Kola peninsula is under prohibet passage so it's pretty much dump/army testing grounds. The southern Karelia has been improved greatly, it's not as abandoned as(today. (Karelia produces 10% of todays Russian Federations iron ore). There are lots of big mining cities / woodworking industry cities. The population is mostly finnish, but there are still a big russian populations in the larger cities like Kostamus and Kantalahti.
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Post by Puoluesihteeri on Nov 21, 2005 13:27:54 GMT 2
What happened to Leningrad? It's right next to the border of finnland. Did they raze the city to the ground, as Hitler planned, or did they do something esle with it? Very good question. I even polled it here in the forum. puolue.proboards42.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1124966793No certain policy of what would become of Leningrad was ever adopted during our real history. Germany and Finland had an understanding both in military and political level that Leningrad (St. Petersburg) should not be allowed to remain a constant threat to peace in the Baltic Sea. Security of Leningrad had been presented by the Soviets as the main casus belli to the Winter War against Finland. Russian drive to the Baltic Sea in the 18th Century and foundation of St. Petersburg in the place of the swedish-finnish haven of Nyen had undermined Baltic stability in a drastic way (causing several wars against the finns), and this had to be corrected for good - or such was the common opinion in the 1940s. Leningrad - Russian "window to Europe" was to be shut forever, and Russia restored to its eastern, land-locked "true" character. In the discussion about the future of Leningrad it was also reminded by Finland that St. Petersburg was built in the middle of ethnically finnish region of Ingria. This Ingrian question was also pondered on in the Hitler's cabinet. One possible solution presented (by whom, SS, Foreign ministry or Party I cannot remember) to Hitler was that Ingria was to colonized by Germans to separate out Estonia and Greater Finland. Future of the Baltic countries was not very clear thing either - Hitler wanted a germanized 'Ostland' but Finland (and Rosenberg) supported restored Estonian independence. Ethnically finnish Ingrians would have been resettled in Greater Finland, in the East Carelian provinces. Totla eradication of Leningrad was the brain-child of Hitler himself, but it suited many finnish politicians as well. In a promemoria sent to Reich goverment in 1941 finnish president Risto Ryti stated that if Leningrad was to annihilated, Finland's ideal southern border would be along river Neva. Another option offered by Finnish goverment - and greatly favoured by the more conservative German Wehrmacht - was that Leningrad must be separated from Russia and ruled or colonized by Germans. Finnish goverment was, however, bypassed by chief of armed forces, marshall Mannerheim, a former czarist officer from St. Petersburg. Mannerheim disavowed any Finnish attempt to attack Leningrad or partake in the siege. ---------- In the REICH alternate history, Leningrad is not razed to the ground, altough it had suffered grievous losses during two-year long siege and artillery bombardment. After two million civilian losses are exhumed, most of the remaining population is expatriated to concentration or relocation camps. When her harbour facilities are repaired, most of the Germany army in Russia are supplied via Leningrad. This allows continuation of the attack to Moscow. When Soviet Union falls, Leningrad oblast is officially annexed from the Russia proper, very much the same way East Prussia and Königsberg were removed from Germany in our own history. Leningrad with its territories will become Freiestadt Petersburg, with 500 000 mostly german inhabitants (compared to the 3,191,000 in 1939) Very little remains from the former "Venice of the North", altough some of the baroque palaces are restored in the 1960s. Main boulevards are rebuilt in german neoclassical style. Surviving art collections of the Hermitage not looted by communists are interned to Führermuseum at Linz. Kronstadt and Oranienbaum become second main bases of the Kriegsmarine Baltic Fleet. As Reich interest in northern Russia is quickly turned off after Soviet capitulation, work in Freiestadt Petersburg make little progress. Many of the new colossal classical apartment blocks turn out to be shoddily built, damp and unhealthy. The state businesses responsible for the work ( DAG and Ost-Industrie Karl Saur , big conglomerates in the Eastern Economic Sphere) are revealed to have used slave labour and hold out great profits on pilfered building materials. This leads to small-scale press scandal and a few department heads are sacked by infuriated führer Rudolf Hess in an attempt to cut down rampant corruption in the Kommissariats. This, however, does little to improve living conditions in Petersburg. |
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Post by Puoluesihteeri on Nov 21, 2005 14:08:39 GMT 2
By the way: And what did Finnland do with the areas annexed to the east - Kola peninsula and all the area between the 1940 border and the White Sea? Development? Rocket bases? Submarine bases? Massacring or expelling the local population? Settling the land with Finnish settlers? There have been much development, and equally much have been written about it here. Here's a short answer. East Carelia was originally inhabited by ethnical finns speaking carelian language, a finnish dialect. Russification of the area started in the 1800s. In 1900 population was still 60% finnish. After bolshevik takeover it changed rapidly though, and after considerable persecutions and deportations to Siberia, only 35% was finnish in 1939 according to a german survey. Carelians had rebelled against Reds twice before the war, and most of the rebel leaders had defected to Finland. Kola peninsula was a whole different thing. It had a large russian urban enclave in Murmansk surrounded by native saami herdsmen living in the countryside. East Carelia is united with the Finland Proper in 1946. Landownership is restored to those who had it prior Soviet takeover (and could prove it); land grants are given to frontsoldiers and members of the free carelian legion. The land had to be repopulated by ingrians and carelians from other areas (Tver and Carelian Isthmus), as the soviets had deported most of the local inhabitants to unknown locations. 65 000 russians are interned to a relocation camp at Äänislinna (Petrosavodsk) and later expelled to Russia (Reichskommissariat Moskau). The new borders in the east are colonized by finnish "peasant-soldiers", using german Wehrbau principle. Roads, railroads and schools are built in grand scale. Christian churches are reopened. In spite of this, many "russified" Carelians think finnish rule first as "foreign". Integration is a slow process but mostly completed after two generations. Large tracts of land are given to state companies to make forestry products. Fishing in the Arctic Sea is priviledged to joint Finnish-Norwegian-German cartel. Under the treaty made with Reich leaders, germans are given rights to exploit natural resources in the Kola peninsula, which will become off-limits area to travelers. Germans built several military installations in Murmansk, as well as nuclear reactors (Kriegsmarine Nordpolarbasis, Severo-Haf/Kola Atomreaktorbau, apatite mines and nuclear research station of Umpjärvi). |
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Post by Standartenführer on Nov 26, 2005 19:21:19 GMT 2
Welcome to boards statthalter Good that you gave your opinion and that you do have some "feelings" towards Köningsberg(Kaliningrad). Or is Köningsberg totally foreign city for you? E.g Viipuri has been a finnish city since 13th century but very few ppl think about it as a finnish city. Yes, viipuri has been a very vital city for finnish economics and relations with other countries on the time it was part of our country. In the war, when it was retaken in -41 and the people who left from there in -40 were coming back, but had to leave again in -44 when the russian summer attack slashed on karelian isthmus. The way i see it, is that finland should atleast get back viipuri and the lands between it and current border of finland. My grandmother left from there in -44, so it affects to my feelings also. The inhabitants there are mainly central russian people nowadays, very few are finnish related people, karelians, now anymore. |
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Post by Obersturmbannführer von Brauer on Dec 2, 2005 16:18:14 GMT 2
Something new to say it in English? Because you know i cant read the other threads. Are you finnisch still angry about the russians that you lost a lot of your territory to them? Well.. I'm a nationalist. I strongly feel, that russians have stolen our lands and that these parts should be given back to us. Some people say that the returning of especially Karelia would bring us a grand problem with the local inhabitants, since they (that's what they say) do not fit into finnish society. When talking about this problem I have always mentioned, that Karelia was "given" to russians empty and that's the way it should be gotten back, empty of all present inhabitants, since they are not finnish for they are russians and Russia is the place for russians as Finland is the place for finnish. As we all know, Finland became independent back in 1917 and we lost our indepency 1995 - when a bit more than half of voters gave our freedome to EU (as you can see, I'm not that fond of EU..). Some time ago I met an elder man studying books through a window and we exchanged some thoughts about good war-books. When he mentioned, that he had been in war and that a russian soldier (he called him "ryssä" - for those who do not know, it's a calling name for russians.. and it has a bit of hatered in it) hit his head with an iron thing. He said he had his whole head bleeding, as the hit opened his skin from forehead to the back of the head. He didn't mention what happened to that russian, but I guess we can imagine the consecuenses of that action. I stared the man emotioned and thanked him. Now he started to look at me and said "not many have thanked me" and I guess that he kept back some tears. We didn't talk anymore and went on our ways. Well.. maby this little story wasn't important in the ways that this discussion understands it, but it made me wonder even more than usually: "Would those, who were in war, done things differently if they would have known what this country will become"? Most finns do recognize the problems of our present society, where capitalism and "gazing at your own belly" has taken over. Old people aren't appreciated and government want's veterans dead as soon as possible. This makes me sad and I think that we really should celebrate and look up to our parents and grandparents. Without them we wouldn't have a chance to say "We were independent" and most likely pages like taivaansusi wouldn't excist and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I hope that readers do not get me wrong for my points of view about the current status of our country. I am a nationalist and would want to be proud to say that I'm finnish. I don't approve direct activism against foreigners as these things should be taken care via politics. I feel, that we - the people of Finland - have been betrayed by our politicians and that the road of sosialdemocratism isn't working anymore. But enough of that matter, back to business. As some finnish see, Karelia was (and is) a part of Finland, it should be gotten back. Every now and then somebody tries to bring up a conversation about this subject, but the leading elite (current politics) and some other not-so-nationalists bring down the whole idea of conversation, blaming it to be übernationalism and a foolish idea of some warmongering minorities. Sometimes this is true and nobody takes these people seriously (mr. Siitoin was one of these "heroes of Finland" - he is deceased now) as they are complete jokes among everybody. But sometimes the upbringers of the subject are quite sane and want the government to start possible negotiations with Russia. Some see this as a possibility, but the loudest part claim that such thing would be pure evil. This in hand creates a minor border amongst finns, because most grown-up's do respect their parents and their country (most of the young people don't care as long as they get their Coca-Cola and pop-music..). But, finally, the answer to your question about that are we angry for losing notable part of our country to russians: Yes and no. I'm not angry as I would be as if somebody did me wrong, but I do miss the lost parts. Somebody else might even be happy, that Salla and Karelia were lost to Russians and, unfortunatelly, some don't care. I hope that this has given you, the readers, some insights on the way how one of us feels. (I do apologize for my mention about our political situation, but I wrote about it to help the reader to create a view about (finnish) nationalistic way of thinking) |
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Because you know i cant read the other threads.
Don't you think you could find volunteers to translate from Finnish into English? The internet is full of Finns who are fluent in many languages (apart from Finnish) and who seem to have lots of time on their hands.
